The-Rehumanisation-Station
This podcast underpins my Flippin' and Vibin' brand to flip the script on traditional or normative narratives creating inequity to the self, society, sport, education, the arts & culture, as with many other disciplines. My podcast covers two strands of groups who look to flip the script in their career, research, activism and sport through (i) hearing the voices and stories of academics, educators, community activists, students, organizational heads etc., while on the other hand covering (ii) people involved within sport (e.g., athletes, trainers, coaches).
The-Rehumanisation-Station
The Multi-levels of filmmaking with Anna Laimanee
In this episode, I speak with our artistic (filmmaker) Viber Anna Laimanee. Anna was born in Korneuburg (situated in Lower Austria) to an Austrian mother and a Thai father. She grew up in Vienna and studied Performing Arts at the University of Music and Performing Arts Graz, from which she graduated with honors in 2018.
Since then she has been working as an actor for the Viennese theatre "Theater in der Josefstadt“ for 4 years. Anna has also played several roles for Austrian TV Series and Cinema, such as "Wie kommen wir da wieder raus“, "Schnell ermittelt“ and „Beasts like Us“.
The fact, that the Austrian film industry lacks diversity in front of, and behind the camera, bothers her. While currently developing her own film project, she wants to address often left-out topics such as class struggle, racism and single-mothers. Anna likes combining autobiographical material with fiction and turning it into comedy.
Anna and I flip and vibe around representation and the multi-levels (macro, meso and micro) of filmmaking, specifically from an Austrian and dual-ancestry context. White males are typically the power holders influencing our perceptions within the film industry. Consequently, this is through whitewashed methods in screenwriting and casting. We discuss how utilising intersectional methods as a way of diversifying representation offers agency for people of the resilient majority. Thus, our conversation is crucial for our viber audience from ALL backgrounds to conceptualise and confront the backend of filming, as it correlates to many avenues in our society.
@christopherx_ab
Welcome to the Rehumanization Station. I'm your collaborator, Christopher Jones, aka Dr. X, and this podcast is an extension to my flipping and vibing brand where vibers seek to transform narratives in society, education, sport, and the art and today the arts. Today is our collaborative practice series where we have an artistic viber named Anna Laimani with us today. Anna, how are you doing?
SPEAKER_03:Good, good. I'm glad I'm here. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, where are you coming from?
SPEAKER_03:Um, I just came from the Danube. I went swimming because I love that. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:How long have you been swimming?
SPEAKER_03:Half an hour. Okay, that's cool.
SPEAKER_01:All right, now I we I know we went through this before, but it's La Lamani. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Lamani, okay, so that's the Thai pronunciation. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so speaking of Thai, so Anna Lamani was born in Konenburg, situated in Lower Austria, to an Austrian mother and a Thai father. She grew up in Vienna and studied performing arts of the university at the University of Music and Performing Arts Grass, from which she graduated with honors in 2018. Since then she has been working as an actor for the V Viennese Theater Theater in the Josefstack.
SPEAKER_03:Theater in the Josefstadt.
SPEAKER_01:Sorry, y'all. I can pronounce it when I when I hear it when I repeat when it's repeat, when I repeat it. So for four years, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Um and Anna has played several roles for Austrian TV series and cinema, such as Wie kommen wir da wieder Klaus.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Wie kommen wir da wieder raus?
SPEAKER_01:Schnell Emittel. Schnell Ermittelt. And Beast Like Us. Yes. Okay. The fact that the Austrian film industry lacks diversity in front of and behind the camera bothers her. While currently developing her own film project, she wants to address often left-out topics such as class struggle, racism, and single mothers. Anna likes combining autobiographical material with fiction and turning it into comedy. Okay, okay. That's cool. Alright, alright. So it's gonna be a great show today. Now, because you are gonna be our first um artist, I'd say, on the podcast. So we're gonna get into our the vibing questions, right? So this is the part of the show where we just vibe and allow listeners to get an idea of your background and your personal interests, right? So Anna, why don't you what's your story? Why don't you tell us a bit about yourself?
SPEAKER_03:Okay, um my parents are also both artists, but um visual artists. My mom is a painter and my dad does like installations, and they met in Germany, and then he moved to Austria. I was born six years later, my sister was born, and um, but when I was eight, they separated and he moved back to Thailand. So that was a very um yeah, life-changing incident because he was suddenly gone and we were writing emails, and um I had a very close relationship to him, and also like he was cooking all the time, so he like shared his culture with me by with food, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That must have been a great, uh great uh cuisine because we I had some time yesterday. That's cool. And do you like to cook time? Can you cook as well?
SPEAKER_03:I love cooking, yeah. That that what he that's what he gave to me, like the love for food and cooking.
SPEAKER_01:What's your favorite thing to cook?
SPEAKER_03:Who I'm I'm very spontaneous. I don't plan much, and I also don't do so much like recipes out of cookbooks. It's more like, ah, I'm craving this and that, and I want to combine this with that. So um, but I love rice, like that's also the very Asian part of me. Like, I could eat rice three times a day.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, yeah, so sorry for interrupting. You were so you were talking about your father and and moving and how that's impacted you. Do you ever go to Thailand?
SPEAKER_03:Only like every five, six years. So the last time has been six years ago, and um, but he will move back to Thailand like forever, ever, because he's 72 now and he will retire in Thailand. He doesn't want to live in Europe anymore. It's too cold, it's too expensive. Okay. So my sister and I are gonna accompany him to Thailand and like yeah, leave him there.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, okay. So how does that make you feel?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's uh it's sad, but also I was always prepared for him to leave because he left when I was eight, then he came back after four years, then I was twelve, and I it was kind of strange to like I mean, he missed like uh a third of my life and two-thirds of my sister's life. So we really had to work on our relationship again, and also I lost Thai as a language. I don't know how, but it just happened. This is also an annoying question because people are always like, Oh, so sad, why don't you speak Thai? Oh, what a pity. Okay, and um um yeah, that's that's the reason why I don't speak Thai because he left, like otherwise I wouldn't speak Thai fluently. Oh, and so we're talking in German, and it's fine for both of us now. Also, his German is pretty good, and um yeah, we've like rebuilt our relationship. So yeah, and I was I always knew he wasn't 100% happy in Europe. So I always knew like one day he will leave again, and now I'm actually surprised he stayed here for so long. Since yeah, since I'm 12. He's he's been here in Europe, so that's a long time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, okay. And how old are you now?
SPEAKER_03:I'm 29. Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. You don't look you I wanna we I we I don't like to get into this because people talk about what does an age look like. Yeah, yeah. Um yeah, you look like you're trying to keep stay healthy, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:That's also what he like educated me about, about like health. It's also a very Asian thing, I think. Also, like my whole family is very focused on like not everyone, but my aunts at least, they're also they have their rituals and they do the their kafir lime shampoo and they eat like papayas every day, and yeah, they have their rituals.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, okay, okay. And what uh is there anything um outside of uh your father ledge like within your story, like your family, your you say you have a sister?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I have a sister, we're also really close, but I was more of a mother to her most of our lives, right? Which I don't want to be anymore because it kind of ruins the relate the sister relationship. But like my mom always wanted me to be like the second parent because he wasn't there. That's why I'm also that's why I also want to address these topics in my own projects because they're so often left out. And um I see so many patterns in older siblings with single mothers. Okay, like they're in many cases becoming like second parents and at like very young ages, like at twelve. Okay, or even younger, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:How do you feel like that has uh that has impacted you throughout your life? Like through certain things.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I I I became very responsible at a very young age. I mean it's not bad, but it's I feel like it's not as silly and goofy and free as other childhoods or teenage years can be. Okay. So I was always very, very responsible.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, that's good. All right. Give me one.
SPEAKER_03:Let me just Yeah, is it not good for the sound?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, just speaking to the mic real quick.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, should I be closer?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, that's okay. Yeah, because better because yeah, we're in Austria right now, so we usually I I am doing my uh podcast in England, so we're in a room and it's there's an echo.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, yeah, that's not good yet.
SPEAKER_01:But the but the when you're closer to the mic, that's good.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But thank you for sharing some of your stories. Is there anything else you want to like what is what about um What about afterwards? What about which your hobbies? Like what activities you like to do to bring you peace and happiness?
SPEAKER_03:Uh yeah, I love cooking. I love surfing. That's my new hobby since four years.
SPEAKER_01:Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. It's just opening up where do you surf in Vienna? Nowhere. Okay, yeah, nowhere.
SPEAKER_03:I'm like saving all my money to do surf trips in Europe. And um, I did one surf trip outside of Europe that was in Mexico this this February. And like I'm very passionate about it, and like I'm very sad when I'm not able to surf like within like five months or so. But wow, that's cool.
SPEAKER_01:So there's nowhere here in Austria that you can surf anywhere.
SPEAKER_03:Nowhere? I mean there's like a river wave in Upper Austria, but I don't know, I've never surfed a river wave, it's totally different. And now in Munich they're building like this super posh wave pool. So yeah, but I don't know. It's about the ocean, also, it's not about only that.
SPEAKER_01:So I've never been surfing, but I've always wanted to try. That's cool. So how long have you been surfing?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, like four or five years. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It's too bad because you know it's people tell me the the weather here is it's different to England, but I mean, there's a bit more sun, but it's still pretty, pretty similar. I mean, well, England, there's a lot of gray skies, I'd say. It's more gray skies. Here's a bit more sun, I'd say. Yeah, yeah. More sun and shine. But okay, so surfing, that's cool. What anything else? Um around so what what are your interests around like the arts and what type of creativity do you appreciate as an artist?
SPEAKER_03:I love cinema, I love music, I love dance, um, photography, um theater and um what else? I'm not so much like uh um what's it called? Uh like a conceptual art person, like when I walk into modern museums, I'm sometimes I feel lost and yeah, I feel like I don't connect as well as other people. Okay. So yeah, but with the other ones I just listed before, yeah, it's really easy to connect with.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, what do you think? Uh how did that originate? Where do you think that came from? Just your interests in the art.
SPEAKER_03:I think with f well with film and theater, it's because it's like so close to our lives and us humans, and that's the material, human lives and human yeah, desires, tragedies, frustrations, whatever. And yeah, I'm a very sensitive person, so I can connect easily with yeah, other people's stories and and emotions and conflicts.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:And how long have you where are you at now within your journey?
SPEAKER_03:I would say I'm in a like a transitioning phase. Like right now, I uh left the theater behind for a while. So I'm really. Yeah, we'll talk about why. Um and I'm really focused on film, really, really focused. But also what's super new is I want to create my own projects and tell my own stories and not only be part of other people's stories.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, yes, yeah. So, within that, could you think of any people who have been influential at different stages of your life? I know you said your father, but maybe maybe some anybody else.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. Like, um, I really love um the singer Rosalia.
SPEAKER_01:Rosalia? Yeah. Okay. Where is Rosalia?
SPEAKER_03:She's a Spanish singer, but really famous. Okay. And I really love how she's got this very individual style and expression, and she's also super talented and like plays around with being. Um I feel like sometimes she can be silly, sometimes she can be very like super um philosophical and deep. So it's she plays, she has a huge range, and I think that's really, really fascinating.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and she's just very playful, and you uh see that she enjoys that. Okay. Yeah. And also she's super committed to her work. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:And how long have you been listening or following her?
SPEAKER_03:Um, maybe five years. Okay. Yeah, I also went to her concert.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, really? How do you spell that? Rosalia? Rosalia, do you not?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, Rosalia.
SPEAKER_01:Rosalia, okay. Rosalia. Um which genre of music is this?
SPEAKER_03:Um, she started off with like contemporary version of flamenco. And now she's doing like everything. Now she's got more Latin influences, but also more pop influences. I mean, she her range is so big, and uh, some of the stuff she does I don't enjoy as much as others. So yeah, she's like all over the place, but not random.
SPEAKER_01:Right, okay, okay. And and what about let's get a bit more into your background as far as uh so you you mentioned I've I'm not aware of these uh of the TV series, right? Because I'm American, right? And some of our audience are from we have international audience. So could you kind of explain maybe something around one of the programs that you've done, the series of cinemas?
SPEAKER_03:It's very popular, I think, since maybe 2008, something like that. Okay. And uh the main character is a female um investigator, detective. Yeah. Okay. Um, and she's maybe uh yeah, 50 years old already, but like very, very agile and energetic, and also very stubborn. And it's a fun character because you can't really put her into a box, but you like her, although you're sometimes annoyed by her. So it's like I like her, I like her character a lot, and she's accompanied by like a um an older colleague who's not as agile, and so it it creates like a comedic dynamic between them.
SPEAKER_01:So what was your role?
SPEAKER_03:And my our episode was about like an Austrian Asian family, like Austrian Chinese actually.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:So that's why I got cast because that's the industry problem. Like they're like, okay, we need like uh some sort of Asian actress. Okay. So um yeah, it's about um uh uh actually uh the grandmother is Austrian, but she studied like um Chinese studies, or I don't know how you call it Sinologie in German. Okay, and so she met like a Chinese man, fell in love, um, got they had a child, and I'm her um grandchild.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:So it was actually only my mom, Asian an Asian actor, and me. So it was only two people against like a whole white set. Okay. And on our first rehearsal, when we're just reading the script from the tables, we had we had to listen to like a racial slur that was part of the script. And then we had to discuss that with everyone in the room, and it was the first meeting with everyone, like with the producers, with the director, and everything. And it's a very uncomfortable situation to be in when you don't even know the people you're with, and you're like with very famous colleagues next to you. And the first reaction was, yeah, but that's normal. We cannot deny racism, which is true, but you can't also like repeat it and repeat it and repeat it because it also normalizes racism when people like watch it as a joke. Okay, then they think that's okay to say.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And how old were you at this time at this stage?
SPEAKER_03:I was uh one year ago.
SPEAKER_01:One year ago, okay. And so what did how did you and your colleague navigate that?
SPEAKER_03:Well, we were persistent, but we tried to be like very friendly and like not to be aggressive, and also another person said yeah, because there was a joke with the Chinese name Dong, and then there was a stupid joke in the script, also. Not only the racial slur, I would I don't want to um say out loud, but there was also a joke about dong and ding dong and like the doorbell ding dong, and we were like, Okay, uh, why? It's not even funny, it's just disrespectful and discriminating. And then one person was like, Yeah, but they made fun of my name too when I was a child, it's normal. And then later she apologized, and I really appreciated that. And also after discussing it, the director also said, Okay, no, if it's if it's hurting people, we won't we won't need it, we will cancel that. Okay, well that's so it was successful, but it was still like energy consuming and nerve-wracking a bit, but it was successful, and yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And the the labor falls back on you and your colleague to actually have to challenge.
SPEAKER_03:And at least we were too, but often you're the only one, so that's yeah.
SPEAKER_01:We well, thank you for sharing your story. That that's gonna get us into the next part, which is our flipping questions, right? So let's flip it, shall we? Now we will get more into how you flip the script to traditional narratives, yeah. How you do that within that, right? So I've had a chance to speak with you and view the work you're doing around filmmaking and the industry. So for our vibe audience and us two, let's flip the filmmaker script, shall we?
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:So we kind of just really just discussed about your experiences within that show, right? Was it a show or a movie? Yeah, it's uh it's a show, yeah. Okay. TV. But just overall in general, what are your perceptions of like traditional or normative narratives in your work?
SPEAKER_03:Um well, the main characters are always white. Okay. And um, when I'm talking about my theater experience, the main characters were always 50 plus male white.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:And the roles that were left for me in the end were like being the nanny. Okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:The nanny.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, for example. Yeah, that was my last role, actually, being the nanny.
SPEAKER_01:And how'd that make you feel?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, shitty. Like not validated. Right. Like I I went to university to study drama, and now I'm like ending up playing the nanny and having a few sentences.
SPEAKER_01:Now, do you do you feel like that is a a a normative thing for people from your type from your background within the Austrian industry?
SPEAKER_03:Well, um, yes and no, it's shifting. Okay. Um I I don't think I was it was because of like racism that I was being the nanny. It was more because I was just a young woman and the plays are so old, written by like men who lived, I don't know, 100 to 150 years ago. So they're the main characters are always white male and 50 plus. So and they're also using only the old material because they love it so much, which I don't always understand. So that's what just left for us young. Women. Not always, but I feel like, yeah, I didn't get many chances to really show what I got.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. And your narratives are very similar to what I'm gonna talk about. So there's this article that I read in America. It's very I would say it's very similar to your experience what we talked about. So the article is entitled Uh Institutional Racism in the Film Industry, A Multilevel Perspective. And it's from Sophie Hinnekom and Jawad, I'll say Said. And they talk about they speak about these three overlapping interconnected levels of institutional racism in the film industry. So they talk about the macro level, the meso level, and the micro level, right? So how do you feel about the macro level? So the macro level is more about the power structure, who are the decision makers, who are the power holders. How would you define that within an Austrian perspective? Who would you consider the people who are in power? Yeah, who are making all making majority of the decisions when it comes to the work that you do in your industry?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I feel it's also yeah, 50 plus and white, and maybe there are a few more females, but mostly males.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, and and what?
SPEAKER_03:And they're dis and also with the screenwriters, mostly elderly male, white.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And then what do you think? Um how do you feel like that influences uh people like yourself who are trying to navigate that uh uh the industry?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it influences a lot in a bad way because yeah, we end up being um cast in very stereotypical roles because their fantasy or their openness is not sufficient to imagine us in like main character roles.
SPEAKER_02:Right, okay.
SPEAKER_03:Um, like I don't in for example in crime series are super popular in the German-speaking. Oh, really?
SPEAKER_01:Do you know why that is or I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:I think it's a cultural thing. I think some cultures love like love and dramedy, stuff like that more. And I feel like German-speaking people like the analytical part of crime.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:So they can like, you know, figure out themselves and feel smart about themselves. And to be honest. Not so much about relationship, but more about like plot and okay.
SPEAKER_01:To be honest, yeah, this show called Law and Order, Special Victims Unit in America was really good too. Okay, so but the the crime series is more German. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And for example, it like the main characters, they get like, I don't know, 10 uh 10 seasons doing that. So the main characters are never BIPOC people. Right. Maybe there's one, two in Germany, but not in Austria. In Austria, you're lucky to get like a small role in like a special episode like mine when there's like an Asian focus written by a white man. Okay, right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And for our audience, BIPOC means black, indigenous people of color, right? Yeah. Um I typically use the term REM or resilient majority, resilient minority. Interesting.
SPEAKER_03:I've never heard of that before.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's where I'm trying to push the brand. That's where my research, that's what I'm trying to push.
SPEAKER_03:But uh resilient minority.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, or resilient majority.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, actually it's a majority, right?
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. That's the point of flipping it, right? The flip, because we tend to say racialized minorities, etc.
SPEAKER_03:But we're technically we are technically when you see it globally, it's uh it's a majority.
SPEAKER_01:It's a drastic difference, right? But that's not what we're taught, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, we're in Austria and then it's a minority.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. So yeah, I try to be, yeah, I try to be as uh what's the word? As uh critical but at the same time realistic because obviously in Austria, in England, we're the we're the minority, but globally we're the majority, right? So it's trying to have it two perspectives. Oh, but since you were talking about the uh the casting, right? And that gets gets to the the second level is the miso level, when it comes to the rules and how you're trained, right? So who is typically casted in certain roles, like one of some some of the bigger TV shows here in Austria, would you say?
SPEAKER_03:Um Austria is a huge fan of like using the same faces over and over again because they know it's working and because they know who their audience is, like what age, um, yeah, what background, and so they're like catering it to their needs.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And do you how do you since you've been training since you were in uh the arts and uh going to the theater, how do you feel like that has influenced you since you've been uh navigating your way in the industry? Like how do you feel like uh you you've played on certain stereotypes when does that make sense what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_03:Or I don't think I played on certain stereotypes. Like I got um like I never played like for example, like an Asian stereotype ever. But I know like ah they're they're casting me because I'm Asian, like and sometimes I'm not even Asian enough. And then how does that make you feel? Um I I mean it's I don't it's very ambivalent because on the one hand I understand you don't want to have like this washed down version when there's like once an Asian character and then you don't want to take like a washed down version of that. But at the same time, like is it only about that? Or I I it just feels weird. Yeah. Okay, I don't know, I don't know, but also I have like privilege in this racist society when I don't look as Asian as my dad, for example. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so yeah, because because you you're you know your mother's Austrian, yeah. Has there ever been since you keep since you keep explaining how it's it's typically like an Asian role, right? Has there ever been a role where they've asked you to play somebody white?
SPEAKER_03:Yes, it has. It has, but not so many. I mean more in theater, because um in film they're trying to be like so super naturalistic, realistic. So they're like, ah, if you look like that, this can't be your mother.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:So either you're the adopted daughter, or we're just gonna take an Austrian girl.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:So I once played the adopted daughter in two in two big comedy movies. This is also the Vikum und Vida Vida Raus. That was I was the adopted daughter. But I mean, it didn't play a big role that I was Asian. Maybe there were like one, two sentences about it, but it didn't play a big role. I was also not a huge stereotype. Like I was um I kind of felt comfortable with it, but also I thought, ah, okay, so I can only play the adopted daughter or the Asian, like but I mean it's changing. Okay, but I feel like the majority of the castings I had were because of Asian type.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Because they were looking for an Asian type. Majority, not always. Sometimes they also say like any BIPOC background. Sometimes it's also just a white character. For example, I'm doing another episode for another crime series called Sokolins, and there I'm just an athlete. She's got a an Austrian name, it doesn't say anything. This is just a normal white character. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And that's that's interesting. I never thought about it as far as from both sides, as because you have a because where do you identify yourself as? Because I mean, we had a conversation about this, right? Do you see yourself as some people uh with your ethnic with your multi-ethnicity consider themselves dual ancestry, mixed ancestry, mixed race? Some people just prefer to say, no, I am this, which is one side. Like it be, or I'm I'm Thai. That's it. Or if someone mixed race, I'm mixed race black or no, I'm black. So how do you identify yourself?
SPEAKER_03:Um for me, um person of color is good for me, but also dual heritage, or what did you say? No, dual ancestry. Yeah, or dual heritage is. Um because I feel it's dual in a way. Because some people don't like the term half Asian, half European. I don't mind actually. I sometimes I feel like half half, although it's maybe more 70-30 or 70-30. From a cultural perspective, I'm not so submersed in Thai culture. I like I have an insight, but I'm not I don't feel super part of that.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Yeah, so I was so you don't feel super part of your Thai culture. So I guess it goes back to your story. I should ask you this earlier, but when it comes to like growing up in Vienna, how are you perceived?
SPEAKER_03:Um depends on the person. Okay, but most of the people they can't really locate my background, but most of them would say, Ah, there's something Asian about you.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so that uh mysterious dependent.
SPEAKER_03:And yeah, I'm like scanned, and people are like, Yeah, maybe Asian. I knew it, I knew it. There was something Asian about you. Yeah, okay. That's normal. But some people are like, Oh, I wouldn't have never thought. Like, right, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, okay. And is it the same for your sister as well?
SPEAKER_03:Or yeah, but I think she's recognized as more as Asian as I am. Okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, okay. And that's gonna lead us to like the last level. So we talk about the micro level. So now, could you share a particular moment that you consider a turning point in your your career? Because the micro level is more around personal agency and what you've done on a personal level, right? When did you when do you consider the turning point in your care?
SPEAKER_03:The first turning point was end of university where we had to do like our own project as a diploma, and I was really scared of that challenge, like doing your own thing after four years of just doing scenes and scenes and scenes. And I but I really wanted wanted to do this, and that was the first time I was working with biographic autobiographical material and talking about my childhood, growing up with a hoarder mom, growing up with two cultures, growing up with a single mom, growing up with an absent dad, growing up with money and financial struggles, and um yeah, that was the first time I did that, and it was it was a very strengthening experience for me because I was so scared and it turned out well, and I felt people could relate to my story, although they had so different backgrounds than I did. I mean, most of them were like upper middle class children because most of the art people have that background because it's too risky.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I was gonna ask how how is the population within the the arts industry when it comes to like identity, when it comes to class, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:It's a huge class thing, actually, like doing like drama, you have to have like parents who believe in you, parents who give you money to afford all the risk that is like yeah, that you're taking. So, and also many people from other backgrounds, yeah, they have parents who say, like, no, you're gonna end up poor on the streets, and yeah, it's too risky. So, um, but I knew I knew I was aware of that risk, and I knew my parents somehow managed to, although I was angry at them when I was a child, like, why are you artists? Like, why don't you make any proper money?
SPEAKER_01:Right. Yeah, okay. And they sub did uh your how who who supported you the most, you say, throughout your my mom and my grandmother, my Austrian grandmother.
SPEAKER_03:Because my dad he didn't have any money. Okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, and and then we when you talk about And also the Austrian government, like you get like a it's not a scholarship, but it's called similar. When you have like certain degrees and you and your parents can't pay enough for your studies, okay, then you get like yeah, an amount.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so do you think the how do you feel the Austrian government is supportive when it comes to uh people from certain backgrounds in in certain instances, like yours?
SPEAKER_03:It's definitely better than in the US, but it's not enough.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, okay.
SPEAKER_03:Because like there's so much wealth in this country and it's not distributed at all, and they're trying to shorten everything, and yeah, they're angry at people who are poor, yeah. Oh right. But also they're like profiting from them, so yeah, it's it's so much better than in other other countries, definitely. But I heard they could do better.
SPEAKER_01:But I heard it's like it's shifting again, it's shifting back to more of a left, I mean right.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, right, okay, yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01:Man, it's like it's like Trump has helped, I mean, I don't know, just sparked ever sparked it everywhere, right?
SPEAKER_03:I feel like also Trump has inspired many politicians. Really? Yeah, okay. Yeah, wow. It's really sad.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, do you think how you or do you follow politics in America or uh the the election at all or no?
SPEAKER_03:A bit, like not in depth, but like it's not it, yeah, it's it's definitely important what's going on there.
SPEAKER_01:But Trump just recently uh was convicted of uh certain amount of counseling. Yeah, that's yeah.
SPEAKER_03:He's leading the polls. Yes, I know, I know, I know, yeah, I know. But this is what I always tell people, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. This is what I tell people with with Trump. So it's yeah, it's like it's more of like if it kind of shows where we're at. Because people we don't want, but I mean, if he was elected, that shows where we're at. So it's kind of like I'd rather know rather than it be a facade, right? If that makes sense and be something where we think where we we we act like something's there, but we're not, if that makes sense. So kind of like with Joe Biden, like we won't get into Joe Biden, but I mean, well, but that's what I mean. Like, so it's more about at least we know where he stands. Yeah, at least we know and since he is elected, we know that more work needs to be done because he had to be voted in, or people you know what I'm saying? So yeah, uh, so it's one of those things where at least it shows where we're at.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's really bad. It's really scary because facts don't matter, obviously. Like, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, well enough of enough of that politics, but yeah, okay, but thank you for the for your uh for your response to that. But how how do you feel your artistry and your activism is flipping the script within your personal?
SPEAKER_03:Um well when I play a character, I try really to do my best not to um not to um enhance any like I try to cancel all the sexist, racist, classist stuff because I you really have to read scripts very critically because there's so much bullshit written down and you have to fight against it, discuss it with the director. So I'm trying to do that. And most of the times it works out. And um as an aspiring screenwriter or filmmaker, I really want to focus on yeah, often left out topics um that are very close to me.
SPEAKER_01:Like um your current project now, if you want to kind of highlight that.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, um, it's called Chaos, it's a working title at the moment, and I pitched it at the Diagonale at the Austrian Film Festival, and I got a production company who's now supporting me. They're not saying like we're doing this, but they're like supporting me on the way to like um prove myself to be like capable of doing this because I mean it's my first project, so it's kind of difficult to like.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, how do you feel about your first project? Your big how does that feel?
SPEAKER_03:Like it's super exciting. I feel like this is the second big turning point in my life. The first one was my first project at university, and now this is my second big turning point, like six years later, where I'm like, okay, no, I want to tell my own stories and I want to talk about being poor in an upper middle class environment like I was as a child and as a teenager, and all that struggle with um keeping up and pretending not to be as poor, or like um studying like the social cues and details of the upper middle class and trying to imitate that. So that was a huge struggle as a teenager. Okay, and having like the hoarder mom at home and being poor and messy is like a really bad combination to like make new friends who are like very wealthy, and you also want to invite them, but you feel so ashamed. Like I felt so ashamed of inviting them. So I I want to talk about that a lot.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, is your is your is your mother still uh who do you live with now?
SPEAKER_03:I'm by myself. I'm living by myself. Okay, okay. But she's gotten so much better, yeah. She's doing a lot of progress. Like I couldn't use her apartment to film my film actually, because it's not as messy. It's it's not messy enough. So where are you? It's like a clean version of uh yeah, 15 years ago.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so I was gonna ask, what stages are you at with your film right now?
SPEAKER_03:Um right now I'm in the developing process of j like I've written two scenes only, and the the rest is just like concept, story, log line, um, character analysis, all that pre-work. Okay, which is a lot. Okay, I was saying if you can so because um it doesn't make any sense like doing everything because I also want to try to get some fundings or um mentoring programs or some kind of scholarship, so I'm trying to like work my way up, which is really hard because the competition is fierce. I didn't go to film school, so I have my acting background, but that's not enough. So yeah, I really have to prove myself now.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and how long do you feel like it's gonna take for you to to get this to get it uh up and going, get it to finish to really shoot the feature film?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, maybe maybe a few years. Okay. Because first I have to do a short film, um, because if not, nobody else will trust my skills, and also I don't know how it's gonna turn out. Like I have to find out myself. Okay. Um but I enjoy writing scenes and I enjoy like um I enjoy conflicts and awkwardness in in relationships.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:And can like not in my own life, but looking back or using it as a in my creative work.
SPEAKER_01:Right, okay. Is is there anything else you want to explain within the within your the what you're doing now? Uh did you can you give us a bit more detail about what about the story. About the story, yes.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so it's uh about the an 11-year-old girl um coming to mid like entering middle school, and she's confronted with only upper middle class students with their wealthy parents and very successful parents, and she's very ashamed of inviting them to her home because her mom is a hoarder, they don't have enough money, and she does not want to show all that background. She doesn't want she was she wants to hide her background. Um, and this is actually very tragic, but But I wanna turn it into a comedy because I think the best comedies are made of tragic material and of this disasperation and um struggle. And um also the perspective of the 11-year-old child is like somehow in between like having very grown-up thoughts but also having very childlike thoughts, and um I think it's very pure because in puberty things get kind of mixed up and it's only about um it's about other things maybe but as an 11-year-old actually normally you wouldn't care about these things if you had, for example, wealthy middle class parents. People I don't think people would care so much of like how their kitchen would look like because they're already upper middle class. But she would care so much about every detail, and she would go to IKEA and like try to make her home look better, and she does a lot of like um tidying up, and she does a lot of like um secretive um throwing away stuff of her mom, and then they like fight, and it's but it's also about her dad returning after four years and being confronted actually with her Thai identity, she also denied because she knew um that wasn't any advantage of her in in this racist society, and that's a process. Also, the there's the process with the mom, and there's the process with the poverty, and then there's the process with the Thai identity. And I I eventually I want her to like um embrace her Thai identity and um see also that other friends are struggling extremely under the pressure their parents are um putting on them. Um and um but I don't wanna end it like in a very romantic way. It's just more like stop denying or stop constantly assimilating, but still the wish of being wealthy, and I don't mean super rich by that, and the goal I want to be wealthy one day, that's still persistent, like because life is just better with money. And I don't mean like I don't mean like being rich, I just mean like not having to worry about is this product in the supermarket too expensive for me or not? I mean like really filling basic needs and being able to go on vacation and and being able to buy yeah food that's nice and clothes that you like and doing sports and doing and playing an instrument which is all not affordable for people struggling right with money.
SPEAKER_01:So just like the basic needs, yeah, exactly. The hint of like some fun, yeah? Yeah, okay. Thank you for sharing that. And then also thank you for sharing that. I'm I'm looking forward to whenever that's done, but we'll you we'll get you back on the show when it is, right? Or maybe even before that, right? And there's also one other thing that the greenhouse?
SPEAKER_03:Give ex house. Give house, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Right. So uh you're part of GiveX House, a bit you kind of you want to kind of mention. I'm gonna talk about so Givex House means greenhouse, right? And it's a network by by and for BIPOC filmmakers in German-speaking countries. Their goal is to promote diversity both in front of and behind the camera, to bring their stories into the mainstream, right? So it's also a place for the community building networking, empowerment, education, and discourse. They also offer advice on diversity storytelling. They are structurally transforming the film industry through, I would say, collaborative practice. Could you kind of explain your role within that?
SPEAKER_03:So um I don't work for Givex House, but for example, they selected my project. I submitted, I submitted the film I'm talking about for this pitch at the Diagonale, and that was organized by the Givex House, that was hosted by Givex House in cooperation with the Diagonale. So I was a participant or I don't know, a selected participant for that, and also I try to like engage a lot with the people around and with Givex House. So I tried to like go to their workshops and their events, and it's such it's such a great initiative. Like I was like, wow, this is existing in Austria. Like I was so overwhelmed, I was so happy to like see, oh, there's actually something happening in Austria. And yeah, I I think it's like yeah, so great, and they're also very well connected in the industry, and this helps us so much, like having the connection to them because they're well connected. Because otherwise, it's so hard to build up a network. I feel yeah, so yeah, yeah, so if you lost and there's so many children having like famous parents who are in the film industry, and of course it's very easy for them, like okay.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so if you're in Austria, Quebec's house. It's definitely something to look into, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Alright, well, thank you for sharing that. All right, now we're gonna get to the concluding part of the show, and we're now at the concluding part, and we're where Anna will offer us insight around rehumanization. Okay. So if you could reflect on your journey thus far, what do you know now that you wish you knew before?
SPEAKER_03:Um I feel I was assimilating too much in my life. And I feel that that's making me sad because yeah, I've I was like denying parts of myself that could have like shown.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And it goes back to your your film. Yeah, exactly. Well why why do you think that is? Why do you feel like you assimilate it within your expression?
SPEAKER_03:Because um because of power structures, because of the system we're living in, like it's considered worthless when you're poor or where when you have like a migration background or um being yeah, or or having like a messy mom. And it's also yeah, in our society it's just about being successful and rich and um yeah, white too, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, and and how how did you transform that?
SPEAKER_03:If you wanna well, um I feel like I've it's always a struggle, but I feel like I can embrace it more and more and more, and I come into a different kind of strength that I lacked when I was assimilating.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So what type of strength do you think that is?
SPEAKER_03:It's it's it's about being like celebrating more like my Thai heritage, Thai food, um, having like a different view because of two cultural backgrounds. I think it brings a lot of openness and uh flexibility in your thoughts. And and I feel like uh also being more extroverted, I I feel like all this assimilation made me very made me very shy and cautious and preserved and yeah uh and also people pleasing and yeah, all that. Yeah. Okay, and I wish I could have dropped that a bit earlier.
SPEAKER_00:You wish, okay.
SPEAKER_01:But it's but it's I mean it's good, it's promising here that you've um kind of challenged that and have navigated your own path a different in a different way, right? But I guess we have to go through certain things to understand I don't know. But that's part of what rehumanization is, right? And that gets us to the last question What does rehumanization look like to you?
SPEAKER_03:First of all, it's actively fighting against your own prejudices you have against other people. Because it really takes away so much from them and their story and their identity. And but we cannot like we cannot deny that we don't have any prejudices. It's bad, but like actively working against them and seeing, ah, okay, it's different than I thought in the first place. And um yeah, tr treating people with respect, I feel like um, especially in theater and film sets, there's a lack of respect in so many situations I've been in and seen, and there are so strict hierarchies, and sometimes the tone is just uh not good, yeah. And um I feel like that is that is like the basic human decency. I mean, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I love how you said that the first part you said about not removing your pre your prejudices towards other people. Right. That's a big way of flipping the script. So how do you feel like that's something you did that you had to do with it?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I'm I'm trying to actively do that because the prejudice pops up and I'm trying to like how how do you do that?
SPEAKER_01:How do you feel like you do that?
SPEAKER_03:Um yeah, counter thoughts or also like staying open and curious about that person or like closing down, putting them in a box.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Okay, yeah, that's yeah, that's really good because that because part of the work I do is it is around looking at the self, and when you love yourself, you're you have the you can have you may you have the ability to look at people from a different perspective, right? And what we tend to do is we tend to become judgmental bullies because of our own insecurities, right? And that's something that I had to go through, especially with uh through certain journeys of my own, right? I explained this in episode one, if people want to tune in, right? Just about my homophobia and how that stem from that stem from and how I don't know, it's just about sometimes we think we love ourselves, but sometimes there's a difference between love and like confidence. I don't know the term to say, but yeah. So the whole point of rehumanization for people, for you just for the audience of you, is just about understanding we talked about the structure today and how that influences our perceptions. So, and we're all impacted by it, right? So that's why I say rehumanization, because in my argument, my theoretical argument is that we have all at some point in time been dehumanized by the structure, right?
SPEAKER_03:And have half dehumanized other people too.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, exactly. And that's part of like what you just said about how not looking at people um through a certain lens, right? And being open and honest and curious. And the whole point is that we all must rehumanize in order to move forward, right? Rather than saying, oh, you need to do this, you need to do this. Well, look at the self first, and then you're we're able to work collaboratively together.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and not creating like status differences because people, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. So, but yeah, thank you for that. That was a that that was a great that was cool. I like that because that's part of the work that I do, but that's something that was different uh as well. Um, yeah, it's interesting how people have certain uh definitions around it. That was a really good one. Thank you so much. Everyone's been great with that answer. It takes a lot of thought, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_03:Like just to think about it because I could like come up with other other re uh like answers. Yeah, that's because it's it's it's a I think I had also a list on my phone.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, because it's like it's a process, so you can it's anything that's about like drawing love and people working, people working together, etc.
SPEAKER_03:So and it's like many small parts also, like one grand gesture, it's exactly so it's a journey.
SPEAKER_01:But thank you for that.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, do you have anything else that you wanted to share that you haven't shared yet?
SPEAKER_03:Um no.
SPEAKER_01:No, okay. Do you have any social media handles or platforms that people can follow you on?
SPEAKER_03:I've got Instagram, it's a dot or do you say period? But it's the We say at. You say at?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:A at?
SPEAKER_01:No, we just say at. I mean, I mean you can say okay, what do y'all say? What do you say?
SPEAKER_03:Or you mean the the at, yeah. No, I don't mean the at.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, what do you mean?
SPEAKER_03:It's my Instagram is a punclaminat. Oh, okay. And it's just a period sign. Do you say dot or period?
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah, you can wait dot or period?
SPEAKER_03:A dot laminat.
SPEAKER_01:Laminat, okay a dot laminat.
SPEAKER_03:Laminat is German. It means like this cheap plastic floor. Okay, and it's it's just like an Austrian uncle was like, ah, Laminat. So it was just like a fun nickname because it's similar to my last name, but okay, okay.
SPEAKER_01:No, I liked it though.
SPEAKER_03:I liked it because it's trashy somehow.
SPEAKER_01:That's cool, Calvin. But I'll put it in the the description as well for you. But thank you. Anything else that you want to say? Thank you. Well, thank you for coming. I really appreciate you being here. It's been an amazing talk. Thank you for helping us rehumanize on the industry and the arts and filmmaking. And I'm excited to see your journey in the next couple months, in the next few years or so. We'll definitely get back. You'll be back on here. We'll talk about it.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01:All right, thank you so much for your time. Wow, yeah, that was amazing. Uh thank you, Anna. Thank you, listeners, our vibe audience, for tuning in. Some reflections on Anna and I's conversation. I think one of the main things that came out of one word for me is inspiring hearing Anna's story and how she's using her lived experiences to navigate and create a film project. And it's been good to just kind of talk about uh the arts and the film industry because I've never really had a conversation about that, never really looked into that before. And it's been really good to get Anna's take within uh Austria and how it's very similar to, you know, let's say an England or American perspective, right? And I think that's very important. And I think today uh rehumanizing when she spoke about uh not having not having prejudices towards other people. So again, it's about looking at thyself and what can you do in order to enhance the human experience and become better for not just for yourself and for others, right? And it's about that love and championing love and her story, like I said, is very inspiring. And I hope I want people, I want people today who whoever's listening, whoever tuned in to just really reflect on um how they can what their agency is and how they can uh transform um uh wherever they are in their career, transform traditional narratives and move forward and I don't know, work collaboratively in a rehumanizing way, right? And yeah, but thank you for tuning in. Uh yeah, one love.
